Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Go down

Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Post by Lionel A on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:47 am

There is a Catholic traditionalist forum Fish eaters which accepts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as including the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance. For them there is visible baptism of desire ! The baptism of desire is physically visible and so it is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, defined three times.This is the irrationality of the Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Richard Cushing. It is also heresy. It is implying that the dogma as it was known historically by the Church Councils, popes and saints has visible exceptions i.e non Cathoics who are going to be saved in the present times and who do not have to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.

Fish eaters like other traditionalist forums also implies that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949, a magisterial document for them, taught an irrationality and heresy.The Administrators of Fish eaters state that the priest from Boston, Fr.Leonard Feeney was corrected by the Letter of the Holy Office which said that the baptism of desire was an exception(!?) to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Historicially in the Catholic Church, being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire was accepted,from even the time of the Church Fathers.They are possibilities only known to God, and these cases are not visible to us. So they are irrelevant to the thrice defined dogma. Since they are invisible they cannot be exceptions to every one needing to enter the Catholic Church with 'faith and baptism' (AG 7) for salvation.

The Letter of the Holy Office no where states that being saved with implcit desire or in invincible ignorance is visible for us and neither does it state that these cases are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Fish eaters implies all this. It assumes all this wrongly.




There is no Magisterial document which claims that these cases are physically visible to us or that they are exceptions to the dogma -Lionel Andrades


Lionel A

Posts : 253
Join date : 2013-02-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Post by Admin on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:05 pm

True, Lionel, but they are misreading the 1949 Holy Office Letter, for nowhere did that letter ever state that "baptism of desire" was a "visible exception" to EENS, even if Cardinal Richard Cushing chose to read that letter that way. In fact, the Holy Office Letter stated:

But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Heb. 11:6). The Council of Trent declares ( Session VI, chap. 8 ): "Faith is the beginning of man's salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children" (Denzinger, n. 801).

Of course, how could anyone ever observe "perfect charity" in another individual? Or, for that matter, "supernatural faith"? And, how could we ever "observe" that the One and Triune God had not revealed the Truths of the Catholic Faith to someone in such a way as to make that person culpable for his/her unbelief and/or lack of visible, formal membership within the Catholic Church?

Admin
Admin

Posts : 220
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile http://eens.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Post by Lionel A on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:16 pm

Yes. 'Nowhere did that letter ever state that "baptism of desire" was a "visible exception" to EENS' !

I agree.It was Cardinal Richard Cushing who read it that way.

Even if someone did have 'perfect charity' and 'supernatural faith' how would we know ?!!

It is unfortunate that the SSPX is still assuming that the Letter of the Holy Office said that the baptism of desire was an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So for them being saved in invincible ignorance etc(LG 16) is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and their position on other religions.

How to get them to understand?!!

Lionel A

Posts : 253
Join date : 2013-02-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Post by Admin on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:17 pm

Invite them to this forum!

Admin
Admin

Posts : 220
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile http://eens.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Fish eaters Traditonal Catholic Forum assumes there is a visible baptism of desire

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum