The saints agree with me!

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The saints agree with me!

Post by Lionel A on Wed May 15, 2013 4:49 am

I was talking to two seminarians from Africa two days back when I finally said "The saints agree with me.I agree with the saints Don Bosco, St.Francis of Assisi etc'.

St.Robert Bellarmine would agree with Vatican Council II (AG 7) when he affirms the literal interpretation fo the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He did not mention any exceptions.He knew about implicit desire etc but did not consider these cases visible to us. So they are not exceptions to the defined dogma.

The two seminarians study theology at the Salesian University,Rome and belong to the community of Don Orione.

St.Robert Bellarmine had the same message as Vatican Council II.
For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II

Therefore, all must be converted to Him,...and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

The following passage also from Ad Gentes 7 does not contradict St.Robert Bellarmine since it is referring to invisible-to-us cases.
Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II

Again the follwing passage from Ad Gentes 7 does not contradict St.Robert Bellarmine.Invisible cases!
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II

Nor is the following line an exception to St.Robert Bellarmine.
made known by the Church's preaching- Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

'Made known by the Church's preaching' as distinguished from 'those who are in invincible ignorance',both cases would be known only to God.They are visible for us.They are possibilities only and not exceptions to St.Robert Bellarmine.If they were known to us personally they would be exceptions.

The Church teaches,after Vatican Council II, like St.Robert Bellarmine, that all non Catholics defacto need to convert in the present times for salvation and that de facto we do not know any case who knows, is made known by the Church's preaching and is saved, who is inculpably ignorant of the Gospel and saved.So, like St.Robert Bellarmine taught, the Catholic Church teaches after Vatican Council II,'therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body.'

So as St.Robert Bellarmine and the saints taught traditionally ' Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door' and there are no known exceptions. -Lionel Andrades

Richard Cushing Error in Ad Gentes 7 and Nostra Aetate
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/05/richard-cushing-error-in-ad-gentes-7.html#links

Lionel A

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Re: The saints agree with me!

Post by Admin on Tue May 21, 2013 10:29 pm

Don't you wonder Lionel why the Catholic Church (or, at least its "present management") has no "organized mission" to the Jews? Yes, Lionel, the Saints do agree with you, but just leave things at "the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church" doorstep. Much simpler. Let the Righteous Judge sort things out on the Last Day.

As for Vatican II, let it be; it's a pile of bovine ambiguity. One does not know what the Council was trying to teach, if anything at all. All that we do know is that the Holy Spirit protected the Council from error but not necessarily from bad teaching. Perhaps that explains the ambiguity! The free wills of heretics were allowed but only to a point!!!

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