Robert Sungenis

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Re: Robert Sungenis

Post by Admin on Wed May 22, 2013 7:51 am

NO, LIONEL, WE DO NOT HAVE TO HELP THEM. THEY NEED TO HELP THEMSELVES!!

Lionel,

I want you to pledge to me that you are going to, immediately, stop contacting Bob Sungenis, Father Harrison, John Salza, the Dimonds (unless, they are responding to you), and everyone else (who refuses correspondence with you); otherwise, as an act of mercy towards you, I must ban you from this board. I realize, of course, that doing so will only leave me as an active member; however, this board will at least serve as an archive of EENS dogma and discussion.

Okay?! In addition, I think that you need to reorganize your blog. Create a permanent post, perhaps on your Welcome page, and include the clear Magisterial statements from the Fourth Lateran Council, Unam Sanctam, the Council of Florence, and the Fifth Lateran Council. All the modern "Catholic" apologists of our day and their superficial musings will pale in comparison to what the Supreme Magisterium of the Catholic Church has taught us.

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I am not in correspondence with them. I have nothing new to say

Post by Lionel A on Wed May 22, 2013 8:53 am

I want you to pledge to me that you are going to, immediately, stop
contacting Bob Sungenis, Father Harrison, John Salza, the Dimonds (unless, they are responding to you),

I am not in correspondence with them. I have nothing new to say.


(unless, they are responding to you),

To those who are interested I respond .


however, this board will at least serve as an archive of EENS dogma and discussion.
This is important. So the reports will show up on a Google search.

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Re: Robert Sungenis

Post by Admin on Wed May 22, 2013 10:02 am

Good Lionel,

Now, relax, and enjoy life a little! Work out your own salvation "with fear and trembling." If Bob Sungenis, Father Harrison, John Salza, and the entire staff of ETWN all end-up in eternal Hell, do not join them there!! With respect to EENS, I like to tell people, "It's not so much about you as it is me."

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Where is the ambiguity in Vatican Council II with reference to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

Post by Lionel A on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:22 am

Vatican II, which was led by the Holy Spirit just as the twenty councils before it, was divinely permitted to contain ambiguities

Where is the ambiguity in Vatican Council II with reference to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

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Re: Robert Sungenis

Post by Admin on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:09 am

In the minds of certain individuals!

LG 15, 16 must be read in light of LG 51.

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You at least cannot find any such ambiguity?

Post by Lionel A on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:00 am

LG 15, 16 must be read in light of LG 51..

Even when they read LG 16 they assume that these cases are visible to us and so contradict LG 51 (Council of Florence etc)

Then they assume that there is ambiguity in Vatican Council II and that the Council contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

You at least cannot find any such ambiguity?

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Re: Robert Sungenis

Post by Admin on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:15 am

These cases cannot possibly be visible to us. Consider LG, 16:

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

How could you, I, or anyone else ever know that which someone else does not know was through no fault of that person? It seems silly even to ask such a question, considering what the First Vatican Council stated:

To this witness is added the effective help of power from on high. For, the kind Lord stirs up those who go astray and helps them by his grace so that they may come to the knowledge of the truth; and also confirms by his grace those whom he has translated into his admirable light, so that they may persevere in this light, not abandoning them unless he is first abandoned.

To say that any non-Catholic is truly in a state of "invincible ignorance," which is, in and of itself, not salvific, but add to that, that such an "invincibly ignorant" person is in a state of grace is to "play God". It is to claim to be omnipotent, which is not only absurd but blasphemous as well.

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So there is no ambiguity in Vatican Council II with reference to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

Post by Lionel A on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:21 am

So there is no ambiguity in Vatican Council II with reference to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

With Ad Gentes 7 Vatican Council II is in agreement with the dogma on salvation?

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -AG 7

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Re: Robert Sungenis

Post by Admin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:55 am

Agreed.

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Re: Robert Sungenis

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