Limbo and its ramifications.

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Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by Admin on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:54 pm

Probably the most important and strongest reason to believe in the existence of the Limbo of the Children was given at the Second Vatican Council:

"The whole body of the faithful who have an anointing that comes from the holy one (cf. 1 Jn. 2:20, 27) cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of the faith (sensus fidei) of the whole people, when, 'from the bishops to the last of the faithful' they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals. By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the people of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (magisterium) and obeying it, receives not a merely human word but truly the word of God (cf. 1 Th. 2:13), the faith once for all delivered to the saints (cf. Jude 3). The people unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment and applies it more fully in daily life." (Lumen Gentium, #12)

For many centuries on end, no one in the Church, East or West, doubted the existence of the Limbo of the Children, if we define such as follows:

The Limbo of the Children is the eternal abode of at least some children who end this life without sacramental Baptism.

If we accept the above definition, no one doubted that Limbo was a real place and state comprised of real souls. No Church Father doubted such a place, East or West.

What implications can we draw from the existence of the Limbo of the Children? In my opinion, the most important implication of the One and Triune God not choosing to save all (or even most) infants who die without Baptism is the following:

If the Triune God does not choose to save all infants who end this life without sacramental Baptism and in original sin alone, why would anyone think, much less believe, that He will intervene to save an adult who is guilty of both original and personal sin?

So, if God does not save infants born to non-Christian parents, why should He save their parents, even if such are "laboring in invincible ignorance?" If God "does not disturb the general order to provide for the particular order" in the case of infants, why should we believe that He makes such allowances for adults, especially, those who do not keep the natural law?

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Re: Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by Lionel A on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:44 am

The International Theological Commission paper on this subject did not reject Limbo. It just said that we don't know and we cannot speculate. It hoped the infants did not go to Hell and really went to Heaven.

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Re: Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by Admin on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 am

Excellent observation, Lionel; one which nearly everyone (especially, the secular press) seems to have overlooked. The ITC report stated:

100. Before Vatican II, in the Latin Church, there was no Christian funeral rite for unbaptised infants and such infants were buried in unconsecrated ground. Strictly speaking, there was no funeral rite for baptised infants either, but in their case a Mass of the Angels was celebrated and of course they were given a Christian burial. Thanks to the liturgical reform after the Council, the Roman Missal now has a funeral Mass for a child who died before Baptism, and there are also special prayers for such a situation in the Ordo Exsequiarum. Though the tone of the prayers in both instances is noticeably cautious, it is now the case that the Church liturgically expresses hope in the mercy of God, to whose loving care the infant is entrusted. This liturgical prayer both reflects and shapes the sensus fidei of the Latin Church regarding the fate of unbaptised infants who die: lex orandi, lex credendi. Significantly, in the Greek Catholic Church there is only one funeral rite for infants whether baptised or not yet baptised, and the Church prays for all deceased infants that they may be received into the bosom of Abraham where there is no sorrow or anguish but only eternal life.

As we all know, the Limbo of the Children is the "mercy of God" at work, for the Church has certainly allowed us to hope that the "mildest of punishments" which Saint Augustine spoke of does not necessarily consist of "the punishment of fire." So, the funeral rite of infants who die without Baptism would apply to the Limbo of the Children, as the liturgy nowhere mentions Heaven.

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Re: Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by columba on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:25 pm

Jehanne,
I was reading from "A Book of Accusations for Hersy Against the Author of the CCC. I think the Auther is Father Georges de Nantes. This is an extract from the book which was for the attention of JP11.

I haven't read it all but so far there are some well argued accusations of hersy contained in the CCC.
This is what he says about the passage you just quoted:
(I'll provide the link when the 7 day prohibation expires).

CCC 92: The whole body of the faithful cannot be mistaken in the faith, and they manifest this quality through the supernatural sense of the faith, which is that of the people as a whole when, "from the bishops to the last of the lay faithful", they manifest a universal consent to truths relating to faith and morals."

"From exaggeration to exaggeration, where will it end, this absurd Catechism? The hundreds of millions of the faithful of today’s Church cannot be mistaken? It is grotesque and wholly imaginary. It is a caricature – which will collapse at the first impact of the proceedings we are instituting – of the very real Catholic infallibility of the Church, which is constituted as a hierarchy, a pyramid and a monarchy, and has the promise of Jesus that the gates of hell will never prevail against her! But as for the "universal consent" of this licentious and decerebrated "people as a whole", declared by Vatican II to be the "People of God", that is pure fantasy."

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Re: Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by Admin on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:04 am

Hi Columba,

Not sure about that "7 day prohibation" stuff; must be a Forumotion thingy; not from me, that's for sure.

To answer the good Father's observation, I agree with him in a sense. For starters, it's definitively not the "whole faithful," because, as everyone knows, the SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, etc., as well as many neo-cons within the Novus Ordo do not at all agree with the modernists within the Vatican. And, of course, if one appeals to some "universal sensus fidelium" with respect to the Limbo of the Children, why stop there? For if we appeal to that "consensus," the ban on artificial contraception goes out and gay sex comes in, just to mention two things which the "sensus fidelium" would believe that the Holy Spirit as "guiding us into all truth". How about ordaining hamsters to the priesthood?

But, yes, pity the poor Catechism for saying so much yet saying so little.

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Re: Limbo and its ramifications.

Post by columba on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:18 pm

He elaborates futher on what he said in th quote above. His contention is this; There is such a thing as the Senus Fidelium but in his definiton he covers what the faithful (in union with the magisterium) believed always and everywhere, whereas the CCC seems to be saying that all Catholics believe the truths of the faith at all times and that more or less that it leads one to believe that all Catholics in the VCII era of history cannot err ("down to the last one") in matters of faith and that every Catholic always believes what is true concerning faith. If it does not say as much it certainly impplies as much.

As you say Jehanne, nothing in the documents or the CCC is ever taught with clarity.

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